Stigamata Magazine #1, 11/2000

...it is obvious our love for the russian-area...

THERE EXIST A LEGEND HOW FIRST KIRLIAN CAMERA STUFF APPEARED IN OUR AREA. IN EARLY 80'S SOVIET UNION STATE-MONOPOLIST "MELODIYA" (MELODY) HAD PRODUCED A LP-COMPILATION CALLED "TUNES AND RHYTHMS OF ITALIAN POP-MUSIC" OR SO - AND THERE WAS A TRACK BY YOUR BAND AMIDST OTHERS... DO YOU KNOW THE STORY?
KC - I did not know anything about that oddity. It should be fine finding out more, as I am interested in that release, just to add it to my private collection.

MORE ON HISTORY. IN FIRST HALF OF 80'S SOME OF YOUR VINYL WERE PRODUCED BY SUCH MAJORS AS EMI AND VIRGIN, ALSO YOUR ANOTHER BAND HIPNOSIS WAS IN TOP POSITION OF CHARTS AND GOT PLATINUM AND GOLD RECORDS... BUT SINCE THEN KIRLIAN CAMERA BECAME UNCOMPROMISINGLY UNDERGROUND BAND, IN ADDITION SUFFERED FROM ATTACKS OF LEFTIST EXTREMISTS. COULD YOU OUTLINE THE MOST IMPORTANT MOMENTS AND TENDENCIES OF KIRLIAN CAMERA EVOLUTION?
KC - Yes, throughout the 80's we moved from the indie-scene to the mainstream one, but I guess it was quite natural, as I had been always listening to pop-music, during those years. Today, saying that it is quite unoriginal, as people are a bit more disenchanted towards that matter, but in the past the underground scene has been quite disappointed when we signed with those majors... They branded us as "traitors". They could not realize a band must grow up and prove it is able enough to use any possible language to express itself. We have never played underground music because we were not able to do anything else! Our possible definitive return to the independent area in the very late 80's has been equally natural, as nobody forced us to follow that way... on the contrary, I decided to do that just when we were living a good moment in the pop-scene. After some releases, I realized I was getting bored with the easy-listening, as I really needed larger freedom. For instance, Virgin Records was quite "democratic" about letting me free to add some heavier tones to my music, but it could not be enough, as I am not that right to those kinds of compromises, so I did ask them to delete our agreement. Then, let's say I have never earned so much making commercial stuffs! Our managers were nothing but real thieves, so, if you consider with HIPNOSIS I have earned just 165.000 Italian Lire (that is the sum one needs to go to a supermarket buying some ordinary food for a week as a maximum...), you can realize there was no big deal at all! Anyway, that was not the reason why I did give up with pop sounds, as I have already explained above I feel too under stress once I see myself too involved into a certain music scene. It is like suffocating. People expect you keep on following the same old paths... If you do not do it you are disappointing, and if you do it you are just a recycled crap... Bleah! Always the same. When our album UNIDENTIFIED LIGHT came out one year ago, many journalists wrote we were "too far from 'the scene'...", but, what's the point of saying those bullshits?!? Is that album fine or not?!? That's the point! Who cares about the "orientation"?!? I guess we have our own one style - good or bad it may be - but we could not keep on doing the same old fart all live long!!! Our style must be improved and developed with no end, otherwise it is... the end. Certain left-wing extremists have been always opposite to us: that's not a news. Today they get kicking more and more, because our band is getting a bit more popular. The story of this band is not that easy to tell. Sometimes it looks like a nightmare.

WHAT IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING AN INDEPENDENT/UNDERGrOUND ARTIST AND POP-STAR? I THINK THAT THE FIRST STRIVES TO KEEP HIS INDIVIDUALITY TO THE MAXIMUM, THE SECOND IS TO LOSE IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE...
KC - In general, I think the main difference between the two parts comes from the fact an indie-artist is quite often a frustrated one who could not reach any mass appreciation due to the fact he is completely unable to make anything really interesting, and, in addition he is often nothing but a snob... while the mainstream artist is such a mountain of egocenticity that he could not even spend two days in the underground area without feeling a loser. The both of them are here to annoy us with their stupid unexistant world of broken dreams and nothingness. Of course, there are as usual some real exceptions, and, to be honest, I personally prefer the indie area, as it is less suffocating and gives some chances to creativity, but... also here in this scene one has to spit blood while he is seeing all of the musically poorest "artists" being praised and glorified by self-declared "critics" who are naturally friends of the above mentioned "artists". Nothing is enough, it seems. Only a few people is able to give some correct opinion, in this area, so... one is often tempted to jump on the other side, where less people talk and blether about "art"!

ALSO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SUCH DELICATE ASPECT AS THE ROLE OF PROFESSIONALISM AND DILETANTISM IN MUSIC? DURING THE HISTORY THE MUSIC WAS A LOT OF "INITIATED" AND DEMANDS THE MOST SERIOUS GROUNDING IN THEORY AND PRACTICE. FROM PAGAN PRIESTS TO THE GENIOUSES OF CLASSIC MUSIC. BUT TODAY IT IS JUST NECESSARY TO BE A LITTLE BIT DILETANT - AND IN FACTS THE MOST INTERESTING MODERN MUSIC (AT LEAST FOR ME) IS CREATED BY FOLKS HAVING NO SUITABLE EDUCATION... IS ONLY A SIGN OF OUR KALI-YUGA DECLINE AGES OR THE WAY TO AVOID REPETITIVINESS?...
KC - I think one must be extremely determined, coming little by little to mix up professionality and passion. I know it is the hardest way to go, but it is the only possible one. Passion is the main thing, but after a while one must realize passion and creativity themselves need to be supported by a certain knowledge of music in general, so to push creative impulse towards something really original, otherwise everything gets boring after a couple of releases, due to the fact one remains surrounded by hazy visions of possibilities he cannot effectively go to catch. But too many people lose themselves, their sheer creative "fury" along the way to professionality, confusing this one with a sort of "lazy maturity". The real musician has to be nothing but a suicide, if he really wants to carry his own world to the light with a certain amount of intelligence. This mostly happens when one comes from a poor family, having neither money nor any aid from the outside, as "talent-scouts" usually discover just sons-of-a-daddy... what a strangeness!

LOOKING BACK, WHICH OF KIRLIAN CAMERA ALBUMS IS - IN YOUR OPINION - THE BEST CHOICE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT HEARD ANY OF THEM AND WANT ONE FOR THE FIRST ACQUAINTANCE? AND WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR YOU PERSONALLY? PLEASE DESCRIBE THEM...
KC - Sorry, I am forced to say the new album is the one I feel more representative. I know it is unoriginal, but it is my honest opinion. UNIDENTIFIED LIGHT was more "elegant", but this chapter sounds more "heart felt" and a little "innovative" if you like to excuse this idiot expression. This work sounds pretty complete, going both over fashion and old-styles: it ignores them. That's why I think it is the one I would suggest to a new listener, alongside the mini-album DRIFTING and maybe the old 1989-1991's issue TODESENGEL.

WHAT ABOUT YOUR FORTHCOMING CD? IT'S ANNOUNCEMENT FROM RADIO LUXOR LABEL SOUNDS VERY APPETIZING. COULD YOU DESCRIBE WHICH EVENTS AND FEELINGS UNDERLIE IT? ALSO I WONDER HOW HAVE YOU MANAGED TO ATTRACT PATRICK LEAGAS TO THE WORK?
KC - What Radio Luxor's manager is spreading around!?! Hurting lies, of course!!! Well, joking apart, I am quite surprized you already know so many things... The "negative" atmosphere, into STILL AIR, reaches sometimes worrying levels. It is the normal result of a sort of a disenchanted coverage/chronicle related to my last year's life. Sometimes, some details might result a bit "hidden" into its texture, but that's an important point we won't renounce to... Anyway, almost everything is this time clear enough to be read, I hope. I first met Patrick Leagas in Italy some years ago, after a gig of 6 COMM/MOTHER DESTRUCTION, and, after a while, we started writing to each other. I actually respect him as a musician, due to his great work with 6 COMM, DEATH IN JUNE and MD. I guess, if I am not being wrong, this is the first time Patrick has a collaboration with another band as a musician, but I have never forced him to doing that, as anyway I think it would be impossible with Patrick. I think it has come natural to the both of us, and that's great.

SINCE KIRLIAN CAMERA COMING TO EXISTENCE, ALSO YOU WORKED WITH A LOT OF OTHER PROJECTS AND ARTISTS, THE MOST EXPRESSIVE (FOR ME AT LEAST) IS T.A.C.
SINCE 1997 THERE WAS NO SIGN OF LIFE FROM THIS BAND AND I HAVE READ SOMEWHERE THAT "APOTROPAISMO" IS THEIR LAST CD: DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BAND'S FATE? ALSO I REALLY LIKE THE FANTASTIC STALINGRAD TRACK OPENING THE TRIBUTE TO JOSEPH THORAK: AS THE PRODUCER AND FRIEND OF IVANO BIZZI, DO YOU KNOW FUTURE PLANS OF THIS BAND? WILL THERE BE A FULL-LENGTH ALBUM?
KC - T.A.C.'s leader Simon Balestrazzi has been taking some breaks, lately. He is now near to come out with a new album containing new and re-worked material. I guess T.A.C.'s new line-up will be performing alive as a KC guest soon, as well. A further work, a sort of a re-mix mini-album including several guests will be released more or less in the same period. Ivano Bizzi is even lazier than Simon, so the planned Stalingrad debut album has been postponed to the next year.

NOT TO FORGET YOUR PARTICIPATION IN ANDROMEDA COMPLEX. DOES IT CONTINUE? ANY NEWS FROM THIS FRONT?
KC - Celestino Pes' Andromeda Complex is a strange combo, as he is in my opinion one of the few honest artists I ever met. He knows his limits, so he would not make five albums a week so "to be on the scene"... I guess he keeps on trying to understand everything possible around himself without any hurry, but with real spirit. Sometimes he likes to record some sounds on a simple cassette deck with no big arrangement, but putting into it some kind of a quite cultured quotation... Of course quite no one could catch the essence of those ideas. I am not saying that's the greatest band on earth, but saying Celestino is a particular kind of an intellectual, one of the few who are really objective and willing to reject any link with the so-called "cultured areas". He knows the path to whatever he likes is made of loneliness. We'll quite surely make something together again in the future. With no hurry, of course...

RATHER THEORETICAL QUESTION, BUT ANYWAY... ARE THERE MUSICIANS - IN ANY GENRES AND TIMES - IN THE WORLD YOU WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH?
KC - When I was young, centuries ago... I had in mind tons of musicians I would like/I would have liked to work with, but now the list is getting shorter. Conny Plank was one amongst them, so I got the chance to know him, and we planned a collaboration, but he died before doing that, as he had already become ill before we met in Rome. For instance, Patrick Leagas is another name, but he is just collaborating with us... I'd like to make a track with Gyorgy Ligeti. He still keeps on stimulating me over and over! But, I have fear it is quite impossible...

CAN YOU IMAGINE YOURSELF WORKING IN EXTREME AND BRUTAL GENRES LIKE HARSH NOISE OR BLACK-METAL? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON SUCH THINGS?
KC - I am interested in any possible music style, I repeat, so it wouldn't be that strange I were collaborating with some metal band, in the future, especially due to the reason I did move my first steps into the music field as a member of two progressive-dark-metal bands from 1973 to 1975. At the times, I had been playing their own material deeply influenced by High Tide, Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, Dies Irae, Mountain, Hawkwind and Pink Floyd. I was just the keyboardist, not taking care of composing, but it was funny, so... who knows?!? I have albums of Slayer and Eyehategod, for example, in my collection...

IT IS OBVIOUS YOU ARE VERY INFLUENCED BY THE GERMAN CULTURE - SOME OF KIRLIAN CAMERA ALBUMS HAVE GERMAN TITLES AND QUITE GERMAN SINGING AND SAMPLES INSIDE AND HAVE BEEN RELEASED THROUGH GERMAN LABELS... PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS.
KC - Yes, it is obvious, as well as obvious is our love for the russian-area, and I am not telling that because I am here answering to you. In fact, almost all of the names of the projects in which I am involved in have russian sources (Kirlian Camera, Uranium USSR 1972 and Stalingrad), but almost no one likes to realize that. German/austrian culture is undoubtedly rich, as far as it concerns literature, music, cinema, painting and art in general... Such names as Gustav Mahler, Alban Berg, Max Bruch, Georg Trakl, Ingeborg Bachmann, Fritz Lang, R.W.Fassbinder, Werner Herzog, Leni Riefenstahl, Kaspar Friedrich, Egon Schiele, Adolf Loos, Abert Speer, Nico/Christa Paffgen, Conny Plank, Kraftwerk, and many others impressed me deeply. On the other hand, my favourite writer is russian and he is just F. Dostoevskij, as well as Russians or Russian-area coming from are many artists who impressed me no less, people like Michail Yur'evic Lermontov, Alexander Borodin, Michail F. Gnesin, Nikolai Roslavets, Peter I. Tschaikovskij, Arvo Part, Andreij Tarkovskij, Eisenstein, and so on and so forth... We never sang in russian because it is no easy to find any russian translator, here, but... it'd be great, so who knows, maybe one day it'll be finally happening, as we are interested in. German culture is great, but we are not on any "one-way"!

I NEVER HEARD AND CANNOT IMAGINE HOW THE PROJECT WITH THE NAME URANIUM USSR 1972 HAS TO SOUND. COULD YOU GIVE AN IDEA? HOW MUCH STUFF UNDER THIS NAME WAS RELEASED?
KC - That's a complicated story... Let's say I am on that project since 1995, but I have never had the chance to finish the work, as Kirlian Camera is top priority, for me. This side-project is mainly linkable to a kind of a "modern ambient music", trying to avoid repeating the same old stories related to that genre, if only possible. We'll see... Nothing special anyway, as this project does not want to be anything so particular... just an ordinary collection of "grey" and deserted sounds, but I like it. The debut album will be coming out as soon as I get the strenght to face another work in the studio.

BTW, THERE WAS RELEASED A TRIBUTE TO LENI RIEFENSTAHL 3 YEARS AGO. YOU APPEARED IN IT INDIRECTLY - THROUGH "THANKS TO" FROM ANDROMEDA COMPLEX. I HEARD THE GUYS FROM VAWS ARE PLANNING THE VOLUME II OF THIS COMPILATION. SHOULD WE EXPECT KIRLIAN CAMERA PARTICIPATION IN IT?
KC - I didn't know they are planning any new album dedicated to her. Don't know whether I'd take part in it or not.

AS RUSSIA WAS MENTIONED... BESIDES THOSE CLASSIC NAMES YOU MENTIONED, DO YOU HAVE AN EYE UPON ITS MODERN CULTURAL AND POLITICAL LIFE? WHAT IS THE MOST RECENT THING FROM OUR PART OF EUROPA WHICH TOUCHED YOU MORE OR LESS DEEPLY?
KC - Some of the names I have mentioned are just contemporary artists... anyway, maybe you are referring to the last years... I guess there is a quite stimulating scene in Russia and around, so throughout the time I have been finding out interesting names, mainly related to the underground area; for example, the last year I have received a weird album titled "Tell Tschaikowsky the news" by various artists, and I must say there is more or less no crap at all, inside that CD! It was actually fresh and had a touch of real originality: I have appreciated it. That's just an example, but it works. Couldn't say anything about Putin and his politics, sorry, as I am not that expert about that new premiership... I don't like to judge anybody.

IN GENERAL WHICH ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT AESTHETICS AND ETHIC PRINCIPLES BEHIND KIRLIAN CAMERA?
KC - Love, strenght, self-analysis, order and respect are the words. No prejudice is welcome, here. No dogma. As far as I am concerned I repeat I am attracted by the nazi-aesthetics.

WHICH ARE YOUR INTERESTS OUT OF MUSIC?
KC - Cinema is probably my greatest passion, but I am also interested in erotica, gastronomy, reading magazines in general, taking photos, Christmastime, sending/receiving SMS messages...
Emilia attaches great importance to her job, in fact she is a cardiologist, and that activity is not a mere work, but also a passion, for her; then, she is interested in cinema, photography and oenology (she'll probably take her second degree just in that field). Elena likes cinema too, and also likes to spend time daydreaming about weird things... (she is the youngest member of KC...)

BTW, WHICH ARE THE INTERRELATIONS INSIDE THE BAND? WHAT ARE THE "SKELETONS", "MUSCLES" AND LIFE FORCE WHICH UNITE YOUR IN ONE ORGANISM AND DRIVE YOU FORWARD? ARE THERE ANY HIERARCHY? DOES NOT ANY INNER WARS, REBELLIONS AND CONFLICTS HAPPEN SOMETIMES?
KC - Ah yes...! Emilia is just a damned pain in the arse, believe me! She had been menacing several times she would give up with the band if I don't stop my - let's say - "politically uncorrect attitude"! She is communist, so she is really bored to be considered as a member of a "neo-nazi" band! Elena too is left-winged, so you may realize there are some serious quarrels into the group, sometimes... But, what can I say?! I am not so involved in politics in general, so they must understand I could not do anything in that way and I won't change myself so to make idiots happy! Anyhow, I guess they are really glad to be here working with KC, and that's the reason why this band keeps on living: there is a strong tenacity into it, as well as a strong will to go ahead in spite of troubles. They do know this is not a political-oriented band, so at last they always "forgive" my uncorrectness... I guess today's members are deeply linked by something particular, as if words were not enough to explain anything, between ourselves. That's a good new starting point... finally!

IN SOME INTERVIEWS YOU HAVE EMPHATIZED YOUR PROLETARIAN ORIGINS AND SOME PEOPLE SAID ME THAT YOU HAD A CERTAIN SYMPATHY TO SUCH ANTI-CAPITALISTIC ZEALOTS AS RED BRIGADES OR RAF. OTHER PEOPLE CLAIM KIRLIAN CAMERA TO BE A "RIGHT-WING BAND". I WONDER WHICH IS YOUR ACTUAL POLITICAL CREDO AND HOW MUCH IT AFFECTS ON YOUR MUSICAL WORKS?
KC - The girls are left-winged as I have already said, and that's not a secret. As far as I am concerned I could not say anything to clear my position. I am searching in any possible direction, especially into myself. We are having very serious problems due to the fact I have never denied my supposed involvement in the extreme right-wing area. I was not born to prove my innocence, and I was not born to say sorry for a propaganda I have never made. Somebody will say sorry to me, one day. Whatever it is my political credo, I guess I have got the right to keep it alive inside me, in silence. We have never talked about politics, neither we have shown any particular political icon in public. We have put an official multimedia communiqué on to our latest single THE BURNING SEA, but things are running even worse. Threatenings and accusations are raining hard over us, many gigs have been cancelled due to such threatenings, and I must admit we are quite under stress, but we won't give up. People are free to realize whatever they want to realize.

HMM, SOMETIMES YOU PRESENT TO AUDIENCE THINGS WHICH ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO INTERPRET SIMPLY. FOR EXAMPLE, I AM SURE THE TRACK "DAYS OF LAURA ZERO" (FROM MY MOST BELOVED KIRLIAN CAMERA THING "ERINNERUNG" MCD) STARTS WITH A SAMPLE FROM ORIGINAL RECORDINGS OF SS OATH OF ALLEANCE... IS IT A PROVOCATION OR WHAT? ALSO AS THAT ALBUM HAS BEEN MENTIONED, CAN YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE ALBUM ITSELF? IT SEEMS TO BE YOUR MOST DARK, WISTFUL AND DRAMATIC WORK...
KC - So you like that work?!? Strange, you are an exception, as many people think it is our worst one. Anyway, the track you refer to was just dedicated to a friend of mine called Laura, who had been spending several times lost in a deeply altered condition. She was very fascinated by the Third Reich memories, but feeling as she were guilty in some way. She was an extraordinary woman, with a deep and tormented sense of responsibility. No, it is no provocation, but just a question of personal dramatic experiences. That MCD is largely filled with that sense-of-pain which needs to avoid any other possible feeling: it is full of anguish and sometimes related to "suffered" aesthetics. Maybe it may sounds today a bit old-fashioned, but it was heart felt, at the times. The title "Erinnerung" means "memory", and I must realize it is an involuntary glance at some personal hidden nightmares. There was no will to hurt anybody at all, as... I was just telling about my life, as usual. Then, what my life may ever be... it is just a private affair. I am not a political guru, despite of the fact so many people are trying to prove the opposite thing...

IN XIX CENTURY STENDHAL WROTE THAT TOUCH OF POLITICS IN ARTS IS LIKE SHOT DURING A CONCERT. IN THIS CENTURY GORE VIDAL SAID THAT SHOTS ARE THE CONCERTS TODAY, AND WORK OF ART IS OUT OF TUNE...
KC - Music and arts in general may be even connected to politics, especially when one is largely interested in, but he is an artist as well. It is normal. It is just an extension of one's passion and possible ideals which goes to touch everything he does. There are no problems, in my opinion. So, nothing bad if one feels to follow uniquely the path of music itself without any political involvement. The main thing is just feeling free to do whatever one wants, as "art" - if any judge around has forgotten it - was born as a merciful alternative to the sense of suffocation one sometimes may feel. I hate the judges. They are brainless beasts. They must die. No doubt.

I HEARD ALSO THAT YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECT. IS IT TRUE AND ARE YOU WORKING IN THIS FIELD?
KC - No, I am not! I was a terrible student at school! No, it was not my way... T.A.C.'s Simon Balestrazzi, who has been member of KC seven years long, is an architect. Anyhow, although I am not a genius in that matter, I am interested in.

POP-MUSIC DEMANDS STADIUMS AND HUGE HALLS, CLASSIC IS TO PERFORMED IN OPERA-HOUSE OR PHILARMONIC SOCIETY; "GOTHIC" REMINDS CATHEDRALS, INDUSTRIAL IS FOR WORKSHOPS AND FACTORIES BUILDINGS. THE BEST ARCHITECTONIC BACKGROUND FOR KIRLIAN CAMERA SEEMS TO BE THOSE IMPOSING RUINS REMAINED FROM CIVILIZATIONS OF THE PAST AND MONUMENTAL CONSTRUCTIONS OF "OLD BAD TOTALITARIAN" TIMES - SOMETHING THAT STILL EXISTS AND IMPRESSES, BUT OUT OF INITIAL USE NOW. HOW DO YOU SEE YOUR MUSIC IN SUCH LIGHT?
KC - Sometimes I like to imagine our music as suitable to a black/white cold beach, somewhere around a northern sea. Sometimes - but just for a frame - is like seeing a beautiful girl walking slow-motion and sweaty somewhere around a hot summer town-by-the-sea, with no sound at all around. Other times it reminds me of Kubrick's movies in general or just of the stuffs you have mentioned, especially in the past. But mostly, I think it is just a "strange pop-music" made by three paranoid cats!!!

HA-HA. FOR ME PARANOIA IS STRICTLY CONNECTED WITH STUFF FROM PUNK BANDS MAD ABOUT POLITICS OR THOSE BLOOD-THIRSTY ANTICHRISTIAN METAL-KIDS. BUT THE QUESTION IS - ARE THERE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY AFRAID OF CONCERNING KIRLIAN CAMERA?
KC - I am afraid our audience is denied to join us, because of this situation that risks to cancel gigs over gigs. We really attach great importance to making live-acts, as we feel fine on stage playing our things, so... you understand this is a bad moment, mostly because our "enemies" have great power on the media, and we have no big chance to reply to their blind obtuseness.

YOUR PROPHECY FOR THE KIRLIAN CAMERA FUTURE, AND - IF SUCH GLOBALISATION DOES NOT SCARE YOU - FOR MUSIC, FOR MANKIND?...
KC - Globalisation would not scare me that much, if we mean "open-minded world", but I am afraid of the fact that word means terrible things such as for example "Capitalism". Concerning KC, which is undoubtedly an easier field to talk about, I have fear we won't get rich at all! Anyway, we'll see, so meanwhile I guess the new album will end to decrease the amount of our listeners and increase the number of the opponents, ah, ah, ah!!! What a wonderful world!!! Just a fun!!!

THAT'S ALL. THE FINAL WORDS ARE YOURS...
KC - Have a beautiful dream. Do not let anybody steals it away. Wow, doesn't it sounds so great?!? JUSTICE!

Originally the interview was published in Russian in STIGMATA magazine in November'2000.

Nihil

Taken from: http://stigmatamag.narod.ru/kc.htm